Lewis Goldberg, Managing Partner, KCSA Strategic Communications
For more than 20 years, Lewis has been working in strategic communications career in politics, he served as a full-time campaign staffer on the Clinton/Gore 1996 re election campaign and worked for then US senator Robert Torricelli (D-NJ) as his deputy press secretary. Lewis brings a “campaign” mentality to all his client engagement. After moving to private practice, Lewis has amassed vast experience running cannabis-specific programs for companies across the entire supply chain of the industry.
When not crying into his cereal about the Mets, Lewis can be found hanging with his family, cooking with his wife Melissa using fresh food from their garden and enjoying the occasional glass of wine.
https://www.kcsa.com/
https://greenrushpodcast.com/
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https://twitter.com/The_GreenRush
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:01] You're listening to Thinking Outside the Bud where we speak with entrepreneurs investors thought leaders researchers advocates and policymakers who are finding new and exciting ways for cannabis to positively impact business society and culture. And now, here is your host Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt.
[00:00:30] Are you a CEO looking to scale your company faster and easier. Checkout Thrive Roundtable thrive combines a moderated peer group mastermind expert one on one coaching access to proven growth tools and a 24/7 support community created by Inc. Award winning CEO and certified scaling up business coach Bruce Eckfeldt. Thrive will help you grow your business more quickly and with less drama. For details on the program visit Eckfeldt.com/thrive. That's E C K F E L D T.com/thrive.
[00:01:06] Welcome, everyone. This is Thinking Outside the Bud. I'm Bruce Eckfeldt. I'm your host. And our guest today is Lewis Goldberg. Lewis is PR expert. He's been working on strategic communication for years, fascinated to have this conversation. We're going to talk a little bit about his background in communications, in politics, and then his work in the cannabis space. Fascinating conversation. I think this is a really interesting topic, important topic for the cannabis space. So much of this is about public policy, about public perception, community engagement. If we're going to make this whole industry work, we really need to figure out how to integrate it into everything else that is going on culturally, socially, politically. So that really excited to welcome Lewis to the program. Thanks for coming on.
[00:01:44] Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this now for a while.
[00:01:48] Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about your background for us. And we can talk about cannabis. How did you get started? How did you get into politics? And then tell us how you got into the cannabis space.
[00:01:57] It's funny. I grew up in New Jersey and I always felt that I had a responsibility to make the world better. You know, with a name like Golberg, you know that I'm clearly Jewish in the United States historically has been the best place pretty much in the history of the world to be Jewish. And I felt I have to give back. So I wanted to actually be the very first Jewish president of the United States. And I started working in politics. I volunteered on the Clinton the very first Bill Clinton inauguration. I ended out working full time on his re-election campaign. I worked on the second inauguration. I was the state press secretary for U.S. senator. And having done politics for, you know, almost a decade, I realized I don't want to fucking do politics. I actually wanted to have a material impact more directly on people's lives. And having been the press secretary for senator, I learned I really understood and liked the media. And I made that pivot into working in public relations.
[00:02:56] You know, what is it like? I mean, just give us a sense of the day to day when you're actually involved in politics at the campaign level. What are you actually doing? What is what is the work like? What is the energy like? What? Just give us a flavor of that.
[00:03:07] So it is it is it is actually the best training ground that you can possibly have for any job, because every single day there is a new challenge and there is no playbook on how to solve. I'll give you a very specific example. I was setting up a rally for President Clinton in Louisville, Kentucky. And we were looking for a location to do it. And I wanted to do it in front of the Louisville Slugger factory, sir. Well, how do I position a stage so that the giant baseball bat that says power ized behind it is in the right position so that when the cameras are taking a picture of President Clinton speaking at that power ised is right behind him. You know, there's a playbook for that. You just have to figure it out. And that's ultimately what campaign politics is. It's looking for challenges, finding opportunities and figuring out ways to solve problems. And that that skill set plays out in pretty much anything you do. And I can tell you as a as an owner of a public relations firm, I always like hiring people who come from a campaign background, even if it's a political party that I don't agree with. And, you know, those skills are completely transferable. And I love it. I hate politics, but I love campaigns. Yeah.
[00:04:24] And I think it's a great kind of example. And I see this just time and time again on the cannabis space of people taking expertise, experience, skills, knowledge from other industries and other backgrounds and applying it to cannabis just as it's needed. There's so many skills outside of kind of the core, you know, do you know how to grow, what kind of skills to making this market work? So it's I'm just always fascinated how people have sort of pivoted and transferred into this space. Well, what are the things, I guess tell us tell us how you got into cannabis. And so you're going from politics to cannabis. Tell us about that transition or that journey.
[00:04:56] Well, I've there's so much there. I mean, there's so many bad, bad jokes to be made.
[00:05:00] But we've told many of them, I'm sure. And I've also told many of them as well.
[00:05:06] Long story short, I've been in strategic communications for 20 plus years. And about five or six years ago when New York City was opening up to a medical cannabis program, a friend of mine owned a government affairs firm and was working with one of the applicants.
[00:05:22] And he hired me and my firm to do the public relations. And we had been playing around. With cannabis companies, but not seriously in the public markets, we've represented a couple of the first public cannabis companies.
[00:05:35] But we really didn't understand what was going on. But working on that campaign again. It was a political campaign, you know, gave me and my team an understanding of the entire supply chain of cannabis, from growing it to processing it to retail to banking, security, logistics. I mean, all of the components that go from seed to sale. And I looked at my business partners and I'm one of the three guys that owns KC USA. And I said, look, we're realistically not going to work for Bank of America. We're realistically not going to represent Merck.
[00:06:07] But there are no public relations and investor relations firms that do what we do, which is traditional strategic business to business, business to invest our communications, serving the cannabis space. And if we move into this space, we can dominate it. And that was six years ago and five years ago.
[00:06:25] And, you know, that was luckily very prescient. I mean, we've been lucky enough to work. Major Canadian LP is like a raw and balanced grow. We work with them essos like acreage holdings. Surely if we work with ancillary services companies, investors literally from guys who grow it in Colombia and transported to either Canada or Europe to vertically integrated strategic multi-state operators here to Rietz, an asset based lenders. I mean, it's really if there is a way to play in the cannabis space, we CSA are representing somebody in that space and helping them craft their message and teaching them how to effectively identify the audience that they want to communicate, to deliver a clear call to action and then measure for efficacy. Because any communications campaign is based on one thing which is in our ally, you're going to spend money with a consultant of some kind, whether it's with PR consulting and investor relations. Consult in a marketing consultant, a coach, you name it. How do you know if that money is well spent? And that is ultimately where we I think we differentiate ourselves.
[00:07:36] I'm curious. I mean, I think, you know, you're five years in now. You know, the markets developed. You know, your decision is clearly at this point was a good one. But I think at the time or I'm assuming at the time, it wasn't necessarily that clean cut. I mean, what was when you were deciding to get into the space five years ago? What were the considerations? What were the kind of concerns or the downside risk that you identified? Tell us a little bit about the decision. Could I see that? A lot of I think it's hard for companies getting or at least it's not obvious, certainly for all companies getting into the space that has good decision. What what did you learn?
[00:08:08] Well, we were we are this year celebrating our 50th anniversary in business, which is older than I am. And we have a reputation and there was perceived potential reputational risk. I didn't believe in it. You know, one of my partners was more concerned about the reputational risk than I was.
[00:08:26] And what were they like? What was the reputational risk at that point that they were concerned about?
[00:08:30] Well, we work with financial services companies. We work with life science companies. We work with technology companies.
[00:08:35] And, you know, the war on drugs has as poisoned many people's minds to understanding the medical benefit of cannabis. The issues around race and equity.
[00:08:48] And, you know, we had old white Southern clients who looked at us and said, y'all are getting into cannabis. Well, I don't want to be affiliated with it.
[00:08:58] Yeah.
[00:08:58] So downside with existing clients that they were going to not want to do business with you for some reason, potential clients, clients, especially clients who work in financial services. And since cannabis was and still is a Schedule 1 drug, you know, there is the risk that we k.c.'s a could have lost our bank accounts. You know, I personally have had problems getting life insurance, not for personal consumption reasons, but corporate life insurance because they see what we do. And it's literally only me. It's not my two business partners, but I've gotten denied for life insurance policies because I am a well known or eminent person in the cannabis space. Interstate's completely bullshit. Now, you know it's true.
[00:09:39] So their argument is that we can underwrite you because you have you're dealing you're you're your company that's dealing in an illegal substance.
[00:09:46] That's correct. And we don't you know, it's not like I'm not touching a plant. Yes, sir. And I touched the plant every day. You know, that was a joke. That was the best at joke. I got it. I got it. They will come fast and furious, you know, and I'm like Hobbs. I love it. I've actually never seen any of those movies.
[00:10:08] So but but there, you know, there are these other risks. And we we had to make a decision of is the cost benefit analysis and looking at the potential benefit to the costs worth it. And I believed and so did my partners. And it did not take very long for that for for the one partner who was somewhat.
[00:10:28] Come around in my other partner was all in with me. And, you know, the impact it's had on our business has been amazing. You know, we've doubled in size in three years and have established a brand. You know, we are a 50 year old overnight success. I think a lot of that is due to the work that we've done in cannabis.
[00:10:46] It's because a lot of folks listening into those podcasts are people that are, you know, energies and industries or have skills that are needed in kind of a space and they're considering kind of getting involved or coming into it. Anything that you'd suggest that they look at or questions they ask themselves or research that they do before they know, before they kind of make the jump or they make the final decision, should they pivot into cannabis?
[00:11:06] I would never, ever counsel anybody to go solely into cannabis. It is an unbelievably cash intensive industry. If you are thinking about going in and you want to grow it or you want to. You want to make the best candies where you want to open the coolest dispensary. I had this vision for, you know, like this amazing retail experience.
[00:11:28] That's great. Take whatever your budget is and triple it and then triple it again, because that's realistically what it's going to cost you to get into space.
[00:11:37] You know, these are even in states like Oregon and Washington and California, where there are not a limited number of licenses.
[00:11:46] These are now really hyper competitive markets. Yes. And if you're somebody like me who is providing a professional service jump right at two feet, go for it. Right. But realize that it is a crowded swimming pool. You're going to have to be able to differentiate yourself. And right now in the cannabis markets, if you follow the stock market the last six, eight months, it's been a bloodbath. The S&P is up significantly today. We're recording on November 4th. The Dow Jones and the S&P have hit all time highs and the cannabis market is an off day, you know. So if you're going to be working with public company clients, realize that it ain't easy. Right. This is not you know, I have a podcast which I called the Green Rush. And the idea is that this is another gold rush, except it's green. But getting a license to produce cannabis is getting a license to spend money, not to make money. Yeah.
[00:12:39] Yeah, it is. It's fascinating just how each state has such a different market just because of the legality kind of situation we're in and we've got all these kind of micro markets and these different states and how each one is playing out differently and then the dynamics. You know what it takes to be successful. Your strategy, you know, ends up shifting so much depending on your regulatory environment. And what there's likely going to happen to that regulatory environment over time is key. I think a lot of companies are struggling to figure out how they're going to respond to things over the next twelve twenty four months as new markets open up, as potentially we're talking.
[00:13:08] You know, federal changes in federal law, but that that is both highly risky. It's also, you know, lots of opportunity, I think, and figure out how to navigate it.
[00:13:16] But yeah, I think it's a lot of people kind of look at the cannabis market as, you know, printing money. And like you said, it's more about spending money. You're gonna print money, take serious investment.
[00:13:24] You know, if Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or Cory Booker become president, you know, they have said they're going to schedule dump one.
[00:13:33] You know, the cannabis market doesn't want that. Yeah. You know, talk about change. Yeah.
[00:13:38] Well, what what that will do is it will turn it into a free for all. And it will you know, if that happens, does that mean that Rite Aid and Duane Reade and CBS are going to start selling cannabis? And what does that mean to all the companies that have spent tens of millions of dollars building out a dispensary network? Does that mean that Lorillard and RJR Reynolds are going to start growing cannabis and all the guys who have spent hundreds of millions of dollars building outgrows in Canada and California, like this is an unbelievably complex industry that has issues that range from criminal justice reform to international trade finance. I mean, for me, it's been the most exciting thing I've ever done in my entire life.
[00:14:22] I'm sure you know, and it it comes back to that, you know, that desire to do good. You know, we started this conversation of how did I get into politics and why I didn't understand 100 percent what I was getting into when I got into cannabis.
[00:14:37] But I have drank the Kool-Aid when it comes to issues of social justice and social equity. I mean, I am a middle aged white guy who lives in suburban New Jersey, works in downtown Manhattan. And if I walk down the street smoking a joint here, I am four times less likely to get arrested. And if a black guy is walking next to me, smoking, if we're sharing the joint pass exactly forth, that guy's going to get arrested and I'm not even gonna get a ticket. Now, that's bullshit.
[00:15:03] Yeah. And that's what makes this this industry so fascinating because it has all these facets and nuances of, you know, politics and social justice and not only just the business side, but, you know, these these other kind of cultural and social issues, they get wrapped up into it. And it's fascinating to see how the business side is responding to it or not respond to in some cases and how policy is being developed. And, you know, it's it's for me, it's why I got involved and makes it so interesting, you know, from all from the work that I do and advisory and. Services is being able to grapple, but all those things in the same markets call me up, Bruce. I could use it to talk to me about kind of strategic communication, investor relations, public relations. Guess what? What is the same and what is different when you're kind of in the cannabis space? What are the things that really don't change because you're just dealing with fundamentals or on communication? And what are the things that I'm changing because of the dynamics of the industry, either because of the social political side of it or just the mechanical, regulatory and legal side of it.
[00:15:55] That is such a complex question. Did I ever said there were gonna be easy? Not it's something I think about every day and it's something I do every single day.
[00:16:05] So when we got involved, the reason why we were initially successful was cannabis companies had been communicating in a less professional fashion and they were really focused on, hey, here's this new strain I've got. Come in and do a review of this or here's this new vaporizer I've got or you know. And they were catering to the historic cannabis consumer. That is not what this industry is. This is a somewhere between a seventy five billion and hundred billion dollar a year U.S. industry right now that is being converted from illicit, unregulated, untaxed into a regulated, taxed industry. So how do you communicate to your audience that you are going to be playing by the rules? It's not about who grows the darkest weed. It's about who understands compliance, who understands the capital markets and can raise money and be good stewards of the money that they raise. And who is able to communicate to regulators, to investors and to consumers. All three at the same time through the same vehicle that we are good stewards of what we have been given, which is this license, and that we are going to be serving patients and consumers with the best product that is the safest. And if you look at what's going on right now in terms of the vaping crisis, I think that most companies have recognized that this is a even more complex issue than anybody recognized because it's easy to go on.
[00:17:32] Let's just ban all illegal vapes. By the way, they've already been banned. It's called a Schedule 1 double banning. And then you look at the state level. Right. So let's look at Massachusetts. If they ban all flavored babes grapes. Right. Does that mean that people are going to stop consuming flavored vapes? Now they're just going to get them from the illicit market, which is the problem. And if they change the law to say, OK, we're gonna give a godfather. period or grandfather period of six months to get compliant. And then after six months, if you're not compliant, we're going to triple the triple the punishment. Those punishments are going to still overindex to African-Americans and Latinos because they don't have access to the capital to get to compliance. So, you know, this is an industry that has like it's not three level chests or four level chests. It's infinite level chests. Right. Because every move that you make has a ramification, goes back into history, has an impact on the on your stock valuation if you're public. I mean, this is. So what do we counsel our clients when it comes to communications, transparency, honesty, timeliness? Just stick with that. Don't be as open as you possibly can as frequently as you possibly can about everything. Because the more that you sweep shit under the rug, the bigger the pile is there to be found. And when it's found, it's going to suck.
[00:18:58] Yeah. Give us some examples of think things that you've seen companies do particularly well and maybe not so well last, you know, 12, 24 months in terms of dealing with cannabis issues or cannabis companies dealing with, you know, public relations, investor relations. Have you seen anything happening out there that's interesting kind of case studies or things that know?
[00:19:15] Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to take a moment of victory lap here.
[00:19:20] You know, cannabis has an industry has unbelievably tight handcuffs on it on how it can market itself. Right. You don't see ads on TV.
[00:19:30] You don't see ads in newspapers for brands or even MSO is because those those media outlets can't take them.
[00:19:38] It's federally illegal.
[00:19:40] Well, last year, case you say was and we are the agency of record acreage holdings. It was right around Thanksgiving. That's actually right around this time a year. My team and I were thinking, how do we take a to the next level? How do we insert them into a cultural conversation that goes beyond the few million people who pay attention, tempests of animus and get them into the mainstream?
[00:20:01] And I approached acreage and said, why don't we buy a Super Bowl ad? It's a no lose situation. If you if you buy the ad and it runs, the positive feedback you're gonna get from the stock market, from society will be off the charts. It will not it'll be well worth the five plus million dollars that the Super Bowl ad will cost now. And if it's rejected, you don't spend the five million bucks and we are able to have a conversation.
[00:20:27] The feckless nature of the NFL, who is forcing its players to take opioids when 28 of the teams are in states that have medical cannabis laws, it will force the FCC. And then CBS, which had the game to address, why are they taking alcohol ads and ads for pharmaceuticals? But they won't take ads for cannabis. And we did. We approached CBS. We were rejected out of hand. And, you know, for a good two and a half weeks leading up to the Super Bowl acreage was driving the conversation. And, you know, I couldn't tell you who was in the Super Bowl last year. I don't remember. But I do remember that Trevor Noah did a segment on it. John Oliver did a segment on it. And it wasn't that we pitched it. It's day saw that this was the fundamental hypocrisy of what's going on in culture. And that was a great way that a company did a really good job of communicating.
[00:21:25] And I'd like that.
[00:21:26] I like that strategy because it is kind of taking an issue, finding a venue or a situation to be able to kind of force the issue or get the issue know, observed or, you know, in the in the spotlight. And then then for you, I get there goes either way. You kind of when you get the ad and you get to be able to be, you know, on it, on the Super Bowl circuit, the advertising circuit, and you get kind of the leverage or you don't get it. In which case that becomes your your story. And either way, you get coverage.
[00:21:52] And it's a one time thing, right? No. And the other thing is, I pissed in the punchbowl, too, because nobody else can do this now. Right. And I looked at what amendment was doing. And their internal communications guy is somebody who I've become friends with. And I was thinking, how do I beat amendment? Like, how do we. Because this is something that they would do. And and to be honest, they did it.
[00:22:15] You know, they hired Spike Jones and produced that amazing ad which they were going to try and buy in the Super Bowl. But I beat them to the punch. So it was you know, this is it is. I'm not an eye person. I really am not. But this is one of the things that for my career, I'm like, this was a big win. And you ask the question of who's doing a shitty job.
[00:22:35] Yeah, exactly. Most people are doing a shitty job. And why, I guess, what would you do?
[00:22:41] So you're right. There's a fear of pissing off the capital markets. There's a fear. And we should talk a little bit about what's going on in the stock market a little bit, because there is a herd mentality to the retail investor. And because institutions, US institutions cannot invest in cannabis, especially plant touching companies, you've got really, really smart, good, well operated companies that are owned 70, 80, 90 percent by retail investors. You know, guys, you have men and women who have $5000. Ten thousand dollars worth of shares and not millions of dollars. And they will drive the stock up. And as soon as it starts to come down as a herd of lemmings, they will run right off the edge. And the fundamentals of these companies really haven't changed all that much. You know, they have massive market potential. They have massive capital costs. They are starting to sell lots and lots of cannabis. And it's this is a three, five, seven year hold for these companies. And, you know, people took profits and the people who got in late didn't want to lose anymore.
[00:23:48] I get calls from friends all the time saying, hey, you said you really liked this company. I went out and bought fifteen thousand dollars worth of this company. And it's it's 50 percent of its value today. What should I do? I'm like, I don't know. I can't tell you when to buy or sell a stock. I'm not a stock picker. I can tell you I know what the fundamentals of the company are. I know what the market opportunity is. I know that they are actively converting millions of dollars from illegal market into a legal market. And if you need the money, take the tax loss and sell. Now, if you believe that cannabis is a long term play, that's going to be here forever. And the two pieces added to the horse is out of the bar and all the other things you can say and just be patient. Be patient because today more people are buying legal cannabis than they did yesterday. And tomorrow more people are buying legal cannabis than they did today. It's just that simple. Just be patient.
[00:24:42] And if you're a cannabis company, either plant touching or ancillary products, services, you know, non plant touching. What are some things you need to keep in mind from a PR point of view or questions you need to be asking yourself? The things you have should have in your story to plan what kind of advising or recommending to most companies in this space?
[00:25:01] Well, don't worry about your stock price as best as possible. Focus on selling as much weed as you possibly can.
[00:25:07] It is really, really easy for a public company CEO to on the day that they start to trade, go more 300 million dollars. Holy shit. I am where? 300 million dollars.
[00:25:19] And then the stock price goes down along on where to seventy five to fifty two hundred and seventy five. Fuck, I'm only worth $100 dollar. Hey schmuck. You're worth $100 million? Yeah, it's worth $300 million, but you are your net value is worth more than you will ever be able to spend. Then your kids will ever be able to spend. Just focus on running your company. Right now, these guys are really smart. And for the most part, what's happened is that the public cannabis companies are run by financial operators. And you had made mentioned, Bruce, 15, 20 minutes ago that, you know, knowing how to grow it doesn't mean, you know, how to manage a company. Well, the other side is equally holds true.
[00:25:59] Knowing how to raise money doesn't necessarily mean you know, how to build out a good retail network, that you know how to to make a great VPN or a great edible or that you know how to grow, you know, really, really consistently good product, you know. So the focus for these companies should be as much as possible on operations now, opening stores, getting your gross in place, you know, and selling, just selling, selling, selling. The sooner you can get to cash flow positive, the sooner that you can get to being a profitable company. The sooner that the stock market will catch you on the back and you'll see the benefit. But the more you focus on fluff and putting out, you know, bullshit releases, the more you're gonna get punished because that that gets into a spiral. Yeah. You know, a CEO wants to put out a release to get a quick pop on the stock. That's not how the stock market works.
[00:26:50] It's just not you know, you may get a temporary lift, but unless it isn't materially positive development for your company, you're not going to see that long term benefit.
[00:26:59] Now, I to see that again and again and people get so wrapped up in the valuation and raising money and kind of getting the accolades on the, you know, from a review point of view.
[00:27:10] If they just fail to focus on operational excellence and I think at this point on the market, we're looking at what is becoming a highly competitive market. And, you know, those that can execute with precision are going to out, you know, get out or they're gonna win the market. Right, because they're gonna be in a position to be able to drive product quality, being able to drive their execution. And from a strategic point of view, they're gonna be able to manage costs. You know, a lot of these companies that are just out there trying to build a brand and retain talent.
[00:27:36] Yes, exactly. This is a huge and that's a huge issue. Right. You know, most growers have a few people who are consistently there, but then they have you know, it's an agricultural thing. So you have agricultural workers. You know, you know, most dispensaries have a 100 plus percent turnover on an annual basis for their just word bud tender. Yeah. You know, you want the longer that you can retain talent, the lower the turnover is, the higher you are going to see your profitability. And that comes down to training and comes down to culture. It comes down to a lot of different things. And there are a few companies that I think are really doing doing it right. And then there are companies that I don't necessarily believe are in this for the long haul. And you can see it in their execution.
[00:28:21] And anything you see coming down the pike in the next 12 to 24 months in terms of, you know, policy changes or regulatory changes. Dynamite's a market that you think companies need to be particularly kind of aware of or have on their strategic plan.
[00:28:33] Well, so that's there's a lot of ways to answer that. Let's start at the state level. I think that in 2020, we will see New Jersey, New York and Connecticut and probably Pennsylvania all go adult use. If one of those states goes adult use, the others will fall like dominoes. Yeah. And they they have to from a tax perspective. They have to. They just have to. And then that'll Cascade West and Ohio will go quick. And it just it will happen. You know, you would have thought that California doing it would have had a bigger impact, but it really is its own country. You know, I think that you will see some holdouts like Texas or Florida might hold out. And the Deep South, but you never know. I mean, look, Oklahoma has got one of the most robust Martin South ASP.NET. Yeah. And it's and it's and we have a great client in Oklahoma who are absolutely brilliant operators. Right. These are not historic Cannabist guys. These are medical guys who really understand how to build a medical business. They are dominating Oklahoma. They are going to dominate Texas and Arkansas and Louisiana. I mean, these these are guys. They are smart operators. I would totally bet on those guys. So you'll see big turnover at the rig at the state level. Most probably will see the states act in that state.
[00:29:50] Sec. I'm sorry, the Safe Banking Act passed. You know, it's funny. I'm not so sure about that. I don't know.
[00:29:55] Just Congress can chew gum and walk at the same time.
[00:29:59] And unless the impeachment hearings are over quickly, either way, whether he is acquitted in the Senate or convicted in the Senate, I don't think that Congress can do anything else.
[00:30:13] I think we're just gonna be tied up with that. So you don't think the Bank Safe Act is going to pass? Yeah. I wonder that. Well, I don't I don't think the Safe Act is passing.
[00:30:21] I don't think the States Act is passing next year. You know, I talked to lots of CEOs of of Canada of. His company, I look to my clients and they are all are like bullish as fuck.
[00:30:32] These pieces of legislation will have to be spent in one our spending.
[00:30:37] But it's not just that. It's that they have lobbyists. They're spending millions of dollars on K Street and the K Street lobbyists are all telling them it's a done deal. So, yeah, I don't think so. I was all in. And then he called. You know, then Trump called Ukraine. And, you know, you know, he gave the Democrats the reason to actually impeach right now. And I think that sucks all the oxygen out of the room. I don't think it's a chance that the federal stuff gets done until after the election.
[00:31:05] It's funny. I just see I've seen them and I've seen that at the state level as well as that, you know, really good, well crafted, you know, smart policy that's developed by highly motivated, well-meaning politicians. But then it ends up becoming kind of casualties of wars, of issues and other agenda items that are just completely unrelated to cannabis. But it ends up having such an impact on what gets passed and what doesn't get passed. I mean, you know, these stupid scenarios where, you know, states pass while it's okay to use, but you can't have paraphernalia that they just haven't cleaned up there.
[00:31:35] It's just a liberal issue on the plate. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
[00:31:39] So I think that's what makes this case fascinating, is how these dynamics play out and then how do you respond to it from a business point of view? The fact is, is that's the context you're operating in.
[00:31:48] So I've been lucky enough. And my my co-host and Donahoe and I have talked with State Senator Liz Krueger from New York, The Apple Times now, and she's been the author of The New York State Bill. And, you know, you go back and over the summer when I talked to her last.
[00:32:02] And she talks about the sausage making and the the, you know, the log rolling and all of the whatever.
[00:32:09] You know, it's like I'm going to scratch your back. You scratch my back. And and and it just didn't get done in New York because the the governor pulled out in New Jersey. It didn't get done for much more substantive reasons, you know, issues around social equity and social justice. Know what I've talked about earlier? You know, how do you carve up a state of eight million people and make sure that the people who have been most negatively impacted by the war on drugs have access to benefiting from this regulatory change? That is a really complex issue and that is ultimately why it failed in New Jersey. It will get done. It has to get done because kids are still getting arrested for having a dime bag. And that's stupid. And you know, this state senators and assembly people from Newark and from Camden and from Elizabeth. They don't want to see these kids go to jail. And even though the expungement is a large part of what they're thinking about every night that these kids spend in jail is a night of trauma that they're gonna have to experience for the rest of their life.
[00:33:06] And it doesn't help us politically and socially to to have these policies in place. It's just it's going to cost us more in the future. So with that, I think growing at a time. Lewis, this has been a pleasure. Great conversation. We'll have to do a follow up episode in a couple of months, once we once we know the outcome of some of these policies to see how our depictions played out. But this is what people want to find out more about you, about the firm, what's the best way to get that information?
[00:33:27] So we are at k.c.'s A that's knowledge, creativity, strategy and advocacy dicom or case CSA Desh Cannabis dot com. You can listen to my podcast, The Green Rush on i-Tunes or Stitcher or Google Play or anywhere.
[00:33:44] You can follow me on Twitter, which is Lewis D.G. or you can follow me on Instagram, which is the Green Rush Underscore podcast, right?
[00:33:56] I will. Oh, make sure all those links are in the show notes and people can click through and get. But again, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for taking the time today. I really enjoyed the conversation.
[00:34:03] You've been listening to Thinking Outside the Bud with Business Coach Bruce Eckfeldt to find a full list of podcast episodes. Download the tools and worksheets and access other great content. Visit the Web site at thinkingoutsidethebud.com. And don't forget to sign up for the free newsletter at thinkingoutsidethebud.com/newsletter.